tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post1269486529372468442..comments2022-04-02T11:11:39.133+02:00Comments on Fennoscandia Biographic Project: New analysis of the ancient gotlanders vs modern European populationsAnders Pålsenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13444056522800105747noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-82441506472708905742012-08-31T09:37:23.236+02:002012-08-31T09:37:23.236+02:00Actually I feel heatmaps are very informative. You...Actually I feel heatmaps are very informative. You can f.ex see that many of the Saami show strong affiliation both as donors and receivers, so do also some other groups. Also the large deviation in donor and receiver relationship tell that they are quite distant from modern populations but at the same time do show affiliation.Anders Pålsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13444056522800105747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-77877476245756031142012-08-30T13:47:29.099+02:002012-08-30T13:47:29.099+02:00Erratum: "Autosomal DNA is not preserved"...Erratum: "Autosomal DNA is not preserved"... should read "Autosomal DNA is not preserved <b>in vivo</b>"... <br /><br />Obviously it is sometimes preserved inside bone, hair, etc. but that's not what I meant; I meant in the "real life" sequence of generations, in which uniparental lineages are preserved much better instead. Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-68493669321465112292012-08-30T13:43:50.151+02:002012-08-30T13:43:50.151+02:00Hmmm... I have to say that the heatmaps usually le...Hmmm... I have to say that the heatmaps usually leave me quite cold because populations always cluster with themselves and very close relatives (themselves again by another name) but the rest is almost invariably neutral and hence non-informative (or very very subtle). <br /><br />Also I'm not sure if heatmaps would render any connection with such a distant individual, considering that they only show up intense relatedness. If I read correctly the heatmap, this is the case here also. <br /><br />But not because the ancient Götlanders are not related in any way with the moderns but because the distance in time is superimposed to the distance in "space", so to say. Autosomal DNA is not preserved but it's recombined once and again and it's been more generations (roughly 300 generations) from those guys than from a random Italian (for example). In other words any modern day European has surely many common ancestors out of 300² with any other modern European and this is probably not so dense with the Götlanders of c. 6000 years ago (exact age? I forgot).<br /><br />But they still cluster in the PCA or Bayesian analysis, what is informative on its own merits. <br /><br />My opinion in any case.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-41900714787001573622012-08-30T13:03:01.532+02:002012-08-30T13:03:01.532+02:00Maju: The heatmaps do not suffer from typical PCA ...Maju: The heatmaps do not suffer from typical PCA problems like relatedness and samplesizes. The comparisment there is individual vs indivdual in a matrix. The problems you possibly could see there is proxying because of not enough diverse samples. Like f.ex if I only had French and Chinese, a Finn would cluster to the French even this individual is not French. So I recommend primary using heatmaps for any interference of ancestry.Anders Pålsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13444056522800105747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-90016494328434214102012-08-29T16:45:40.393+02:002012-08-29T16:45:40.393+02:00Well, yes, Gok4 looks more southern than modern Sc...Well, yes, Gok4 looks more southern than modern Scandinavians but modern Scandianvians look more Southern and therefore more Western than the Götland samples. <br /><br />French and other Europeans' position in the graphs (towards the center) is caused by oversampling of exotic NE Europeans like not just Finns and Saami but also Chuvash, who take over the dimensions. By contrast: mainstream Europeans make up the main cluster but lack the extremely marked "personality" of these groups.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-39399110436408023412012-08-29T10:50:32.617+02:002012-08-29T10:50:32.617+02:00Maju: Wasnt the 5000 year old Scandinavian peasent...Maju: Wasnt the 5000 year old Scandinavian peasent analysed (Gok4) found to be similar to todays southern Europeans? In that context I suspect it may have *also* something to do with the agricultural migrations. Why French stand out like they do so close to the Italians I dont fully understand but maybe its trace of a western migration from Iberia to the north-east. Remember the image displays the ancient gotlanders view to the modern populations.Anders Pålsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13444056522800105747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-87094946806080722612012-08-28T15:50:30.392+02:002012-08-28T15:50:30.392+02:00I think that the Pitted Ware peoples belonged to a...I think that the Pitted Ware peoples belonged to a migrant population from Eastern Europe but pre-Indoeuropean. They must have contributed to the genetic makeup of modern Swedes but are only one of the contributors and maybe the Megalithic Western Swedes were a more important pillar of modern Scandinavian makeup, of course later modified by Indoeuropean flows from Central Europe (ultimately originated in Eastern Europe but with many centuries of consolidation in Central Europe before the Corded Ware explosion). <br /><br />In this sense I'm not at all surprised by their Lithuanian/Vologda affinities but neither by the Finnic ones - after all the Finnic founder culture of Combed Ware is related to Pitted Ware even if not the same thing. <br /><br />I doubt that there has been any "recent" migration northwards from Italy (must be an artifact), however the Ukranian affinities make all sense because it was the Dniepr-Don culture which was at the origin of the Pitted Ware "forest neolithic" phenomenon. Later also Ukraine and the Don were a major intermediate region in the Westerly flows of Indoeuropeans. <br /><br />The Balcanic affinities may make sens in connection with the Balcano-Danubian Neolithic maybe. But these seem less obvious because there was no Danubian Neolithic as such in Scandinavia but at most tenuous influences. Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.com