tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post8033008913824117477..comments2022-04-02T11:11:39.133+02:00Comments on Fennoscandia Biographic Project: Saami ancestry and the MDLP Oracle-x Population FittingAnders Pålsenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13444056522800105747noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-78530783049033768112018-09-18T14:00:55.517+02:002018-09-18T14:00:55.517+02:00MDLP K23b Oracle Rev 2014 Sep 16
Admix Results (s...MDLP K23b Oracle Rev 2014 Sep 16<br /><br />Admix Results (sorted):<br /><br /># Population Percent<br />1 European_Hunters_Gatherers 37.71<br />2 European_Early_Farmers 24.90<br />3 Caucasian 23.25<br />4 Ancestral_Altaic 7.13<br />5 South_Central_Asian 4.84<br /><br /><br />Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.<br />23 components mode.<br /><br />--------------------------------<br /><br />Least-squares method.<br /><br />Using 1 population approximation:<br />1 Dutch_ @ 3.348841<br />2 Frisian_ @ 4.480691<br />3 Belgian_ @ 4.659381<br />4 German-Volga_ @ 5.292044<br />5 South_German_ @ 5.684177<br />6 Irish_ @ 5.694741<br />7 English_ @ 5.808403<br />8 North_European_ @ 6.667609<br />9 Dane_ @ 6.847067<br />10 Norwegian_East_ @ 7.263335<br />11 North_German_ @ 7.349187<br />12 English_Kent_GBR_ @ 7.869706<br />13 Swede_ @ 8.049898<br />14 CEU_ @ 8.209118<br />15 Austrian_ @ 8.356219<br />16 Norwegian_West_ @ 8.382527<br />17 English_Cornwall_GBR_ @ 8.558599<br />18 British_ @ 8.607338<br />19 Icelandic_ @ 8.871739<br />20 Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR_ @ 9.392570<br /><br />Using 2 populations approximation:<br />1 50% Dutch_ +50% Frisian_ @ 3.311753<br /><br /><br />Using 3 populations approximation:<br />1 50% Frisian_ +25% German-Volga_ +25% Swede_Saami_ @ 2.556159<br /><br /><br />Using 4 populations approximation:<br />+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<br />1 Frisian_ + Frisian_ + German-Volga_ + Swede_Saami_ @ 2.556159<br />2 Belgian_ + Frisian_ + German-Volga_ + Swede_Saami_ @ 2.625901<br />3 British_ + English_Cornwall_GBR_ + Serb_Serbia_ + Swede_Saami_ @ 2.778908<br />4 British_ + Frisian_ + Serb_Serbia_ + Swede_Saami_ @ 2.800740<br />5 English_Cornwall_GBR_ + Frisian_ + Serb_Serbia_ + Swede_Saami_ @ 2.804457<br />6 British_ + British_ + Serb_Serbia_ + Swede_Saami_ @ 2.813807<br />7 Frisian_ + German-Volga_ + Irish_ + Swede_Saami_ @ 2.835624<br />8 Belgian_ + Belgian_ + German-Volga_ + Swede_Saami_ @ 2.840934<br />9 English_Cornwall_GBR_ + English_Cornwall_GBR_ + Serb_Serbia_ + Swede_Saami_ @ 2.841929<br />10 Frisian_ + Orcadian_ + Serb_Serbia_ + Swede_Saami_ @ 2.858988<br />11 Frisian_ + German-Volga_ + German-Volga_ + Swede_Saami_ @ 2.875533<br />12 Belgian_ + German-Volga_ + Irish_ + Swede_Saami_ @ 2.887551<br />13 Dutch_ + Frisian_ + German-Volga_ + Swede_Saami_ @ 2.888321<br />14 British_ + English_Kent_GBR_ + Serb_Serbia_ + Swede_Saami_ @ 2.896170<br />15 French_ + Frisian_ + Frisian_ + Moksha_ @ 2.912291<br />16 English_Kent_GBR_ + Frisian_ + German-Volga_ + Swede_Saami_ @ 2.918776<br />17 British_ + Irish_ + Serb_Serbia_ + Swede_Saami_ @ 2.924184<br />18 English_Cornwall_GBR_ + English_Kent_GBR_ + Serb_Serbia_ + Swede_Saami_ @ 2.926064<br />19 Frisian_ + German-Volga_ + German-Volga_ + Swede_ @ 2.927602<br />20 Dane_ + Dutch_ + Frisian_ + German-Volga_ @ 2.928567<br /><br />Done.<br /><br />Elapsed time 42.5143 seconds.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05708118781279674443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-89378188972788198652014-02-11T10:20:35.224+01:002014-02-11T10:20:35.224+01:00n this PCA dimension plotted on a gradient map of ...n this PCA dimension plotted on a gradient map of Europe appear to show some connection between Finns and Basque, maybe the genetic traces of an ancient agricultural expansion that have moved from South-East Europe tot he west and north to the Finns.<br /><br />https://sites.google.com/site/fennobga/CCEuropeD5map191213.pngAnders Pålsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13444056522800105747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-46474783958099912412014-02-11T10:17:14.847+01:002014-02-11T10:17:14.847+01:00In this PCA dimension plotted on a gradient map of...In this PCA dimension plotted on a gradient map of Europe appear to show some connection between Finns and Basque, maybe the genetic traces of an ancient agricultural expansion that have moved from South-East Europe tot he west and north to the Finns.<br /><br />https://sites.google.com/site/fennobga/CCEuropeD5map191213.pngAnders Pålsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13444056522800105747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-87835885692215437542014-02-11T09:02:40.000+01:002014-02-11T09:02:40.000+01:00I have not tried to experiment what score people w...I have not tried to experiment what score people with Saami minority ancestry would get in these tests. But my guess from this experiemnt is that getting some higher score here would be better but as you can see this test also claim you to be 15% Basque so it also make your Saami score questionable.Anders Pålsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13444056522800105747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-3469129500789197632014-02-10T21:34:07.135+01:002014-02-10T21:34:07.135+01:00Hello, maybe this can give an answer to your quest...Hello, maybe this can give an answer to your question. Most Basque are probably the same stock as the farmers that came from Balkans, and Middle East, it seems that the Basque language show such affiliation.<br />But this work is about Sámi and Berbers and about the Ice Age refugee in Franco-Kantabria and Iberia/North Africa.<br /><br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1199377/Samequeenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15344182280277856345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-56711987739677215652014-02-10T19:47:03.031+01:002014-02-10T19:47:03.031+01:00Hello Anders:
I ran my 23andme results through th...Hello Anders:<br /><br />I ran my 23andme results through the MDLP K=5 Oracle-x Pct. Calc. Option 1, looking specifically for Saami ancestry, as my maternal grandparents were from Sodankyla, Finland and raised reindeer. My results were:<br /><br />1 KRL 77.07%<br />2 BASQ 15.13%<br />3 SAM 6.40%<br />4 GYP 1.11%<br />5 NRW 0.03%<br /><br />Everything else was 0.01 or less; "unable to determine" was 0.23%.<br /><br />The thing that has me confused is the Basque ... all 16 of my great-great grandparents were born in Finland, and 5 of my 8 great-grandparents were born in Finland (the other 5 were born in Michigan after their parents emigrated). Any idea where the Basque might be coming from or why it is showing? Thank you!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-29331785041813808822014-01-24T10:56:41.301+01:002014-01-24T10:56:41.301+01:00It could be that because your "mixed" it...It could be that because your "mixed" it uses the closest proxies. I suggest you use Oracle-X with 4 pops to maybe get a answer closer to the truth.Anders Pålsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13444056522800105747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-49672155794458154272014-01-23T06:06:40.730+01:002014-01-23T06:06:40.730+01:00All four of my mother's Grandparents are Finni...All four of my mother's Grandparents are Finnish and only two of my Grandparents are Finnish. Yet my results are nothing like hers.<br /><br />My mom<br />1 FIN 64.68%<br />2 SAM 21.35%<br />3 SWD 9.21%<br />4 BASQ 4.70%<br />5 GBRARG 0.04%<br />6 GBRWAL 0.02%<br /><br />Me:<br />1 SWD 69.63%<br />2 CHU 22.98%<br />3 EUKR 5.30%<br />4 BLG 1.21%<br />5 TTR 0.48%<br />6 MCD 0.35%<br />7 NOG 0.03%<br />8 LZG 0.02%deletehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09429360836279911249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-21083163026183394872014-01-15T18:09:04.409+01:002014-01-15T18:09:04.409+01:00It could theoretically be that that you have a Saa...It could theoretically be that that you have a Saami ancestor far back and the little this ancestor contributed to you happend to be a segment that fits the Yakut even the far majority of any Saami ancestors is European. However there is no guarantee for this is the case. It may have came other ways too but its difficult without a proper investigation of the segment in question and even then there might not be a sure answer.Anders Pålsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13444056522800105747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-44462098807069276982014-01-14T06:16:33.091+01:002014-01-14T06:16:33.091+01:00Sorry, I meant to say 0.2% Yakut.Sorry, I meant to say 0.2% Yakut.sjunnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14506918981512220239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-44476939785419171792014-01-14T06:09:14.077+01:002014-01-14T06:09:14.077+01:00Thanks Anders. The reason I was searching for Saam...Thanks Anders. The reason I was searching for Saami ancestry was That I thought the Yakut affinity that I show might have been East Asian that admixed with my Scandinavian ancestors. I've always shown East Asian on the same spot on Chromosome 2 now 23andMe shows it as 0.02% Yakut on their new Ancestry Composition. I'll have to keep searching to solve that.sjunnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14506918981512220239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-51553880318157458472014-01-11T19:31:32.860+01:002014-01-11T19:31:32.860+01:00As K=5 was the only calculator that was able to di...As K=5 was the only calculator that was able to disover that this Saami individual was of majority Saami ancestry I am assuming it is the most correct calculator of all these. Anything as low as these scores you show I then would assume is far below the margin of error and as you score 0 at K=5 it seems you have no Saami ancestry.Anders Pålsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13444056522800105747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-22039867851529967882014-01-10T19:07:40.206+01:002014-01-10T19:07:40.206+01:00I read this article with interest and ran my 23and...I read this article with interest and ran my 23andMe results through all of the MDLP with Oracle-x calculators and interestingly K=5 was the only one showing no Saami. The others show some Saami mostly under option 2, with K=6 and K=7 the strongest.<br /><br />K=5, opt 1 - 0.00, opt 2 - 0.00<br />World 22, opt 1 - 2.98, opt 2 - 2.09<br />K=6, opt 1 - 0.00, opt 2 - 5.38<br />K=7, opt 1 - 0.04, opt 2 - 5.59<br />K=8, opt 1 - 0.00, opt 2 - 2.84<br />K=9, opt 1 - 0.00, opt 2 - 2.92<br />K=10, opt 1 - 0.00, opt 2 - 2.89<br />K=11, opt 1 - 0.00, opt 2 - 2.89<br />K=12, opt 1 - 0.99, opt 2 - 1.08<br /><br />My known background; paternal Grandparents were both born in Southern Sweden and my maternal gg grandfather was born in Norway, the rest of my mothers family is a mix of German, Colonial British and French.sjunnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14506918981512220239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-16155488674934581082013-09-29T20:16:21.387+02:002013-09-29T20:16:21.387+02:00May indicate Saami ancestry.May indicate Saami ancestry.Anders Pålsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13444056522800105747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-17903119846060803162013-09-29T20:14:53.769+02:002013-09-29T20:14:53.769+02:00Angie: That I dont know but I would guess that Saa...Angie: That I dont know but I would guess that Saami ancestry should be seen directly as Saami population is in the reference so no need for Central Asian proxies. You may want to contact the authors of these calculators about this. The contact details should be available when you run the calculators.Anders Pålsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13444056522800105747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-56160115661611306832013-09-29T19:04:31.899+02:002013-09-29T19:04:31.899+02:00MDLP K=5 Pct. Calc. Option 1
1 Karelian 34.66%
2 F...MDLP K=5 Pct. Calc. Option 1<br />1 Karelian 34.66%<br />2 FIN 28.48%<br />3 SWD 21.61%<br />4 SAM 8.99%<br />5 BASQ 4.52%<br />6 GBRARG 0.93%<br />7 Veps 0.81%<br /><br /><br />MDLP World test Pct. Calc. Option 1 also had Saami and something else:<br />1 Finnish 47.62%<br />2 Swedish_V 32.34%<br />3 Ire8 [the Gotlander] 14.09% <br />4 Saami 4.76%<br />5 Yukagir 1.19%Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-88544892734446267192013-09-26T00:55:41.814+02:002013-09-26T00:55:41.814+02:00This is interesting to me because my ancestry is m...This is interesting to me because my ancestry is mostly British, except that I have two great-grandparents who were from areas of Sweden where there are a lot of Saami. K=5 Oracle X Pct. Calc. Option 1 gives me no Saami at all (is there a legend somewhere that explains what all the abbreviations are?) <br /><br />0 Unable to determine 0.26%<br />1 CEU 86.34%<br />2 EUKR 5.49%<br />3 NOG 4.40%<br />4 GRK 1.64%<br />5 BLG 1.34%<br />6 BSHK 0.38%<br />7 KSV 0.12%<br />8 LZG 0.02%<br />9 GYP 0.01%<br />10 TRK 0.00%<br /><br />Whereas most of the other MDLP utilities give me results with Saami ranging from 1-3% (this is K=8 Oracle X Pct. Calc. Option 2):<br /><br />0 Unable to determine 0.01%<br />1 GER 62.69%<br />2 BASQ 8.17%<br />3 SRD 7.11%<br />4 GBRARG 7.10%<br />5 LTV 4.16%<br />6 SAM 3.26%<br />7 BLG 2.96%<br />8 UD 2.36%<br />9 TTR 2.17%<br />10 CPR 0.00%<br /><br />Do you think this, along with what appear to be central Asiatic clusters, would be consistent with a Swedish grandparent having some Saami blood or is it just noise?Angie T.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08912321270660384345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-21341217231167793412013-09-24T08:51:16.890+02:002013-09-24T08:51:16.890+02:00Thanks, Anders. Some of the Gedmatch.com admixtur...Thanks, Anders. Some of the Gedmatch.com admixture calculators (various ones) returned results for Finnish, Swedish and Norwegian ancestry ranging from 8%-ish to maybe twice that percentage, and some quite a bit lower (AncestryDNA also gave me "Finnish/Volga-Ural" results - about 12%). Anyway, as you suggest, without known genealogies, it's hard to say! Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05908355706112024201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-56631501891075924982013-09-23T20:21:52.219+02:002013-09-23T20:21:52.219+02:00Liz: difficult to say if it is real or not. I will...Liz: difficult to say if it is real or not. I will probably guess not as it is so small but you never know. If you have partly ancesty from known Saami populated areas or even better known geneologies connecting to Saami individuals it would be even better.Anders Pålsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13444056522800105747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-14948922544564763102013-09-23T08:03:34.739+02:002013-09-23T08:03:34.739+02:00Thank you, Anders, for the information. I show lo...Thank you, Anders, for the information. I show low-level (1.18% and below; usually about 1.10%) for MDLP's K8 through K12 Oracle-X option calculators.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05908355706112024201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-5057638059001734652013-09-20T22:21:36.088+02:002013-09-20T22:21:36.088+02:00I dont know. I do not have the MDLP K=5 oracle fil...I dont know. I do not have the MDLP K=5 oracle files. The answer would be in there.Anders Pålsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13444056522800105747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-20031210879513286142013-09-20T07:31:49.418+02:002013-09-20T07:31:49.418+02:00Besides the 9.51% that I got with K=5 Opt2, my oth...Besides the 9.51% that I got with K=5 Opt2, my other results for Saami were: K=12 Opt1 4.14% Opt2 6.33%, World-22 Opt2 2.04%. The rest returned no Saami. I have matched with some Saami individuals but I thought that it was probably due to my ancestors moving to Saami areas in Sweden and Finland.<br /><br />In any case, the MDLP World test gave me weird results. It gave me 85-95% Russian and the top two and three were Koryak and Hanti. Speaking of Russian, I probably have a Russian ancestor but it isn't confirmed yet.<br /><br />Sometimes, I wish that people weren't so worried about privacy... :P The amount of declines on 23andMe really sucks, too.<br /><br />By the way, are Paleo-Scandinavian and North-European-Mesolithic both Saami components?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12777023803944977959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-58432785128376453902013-09-19T14:07:31.611+02:002013-09-19T14:07:31.611+02:00HKS = Hakas. GBRARG = Great Britain, Argyll.HKS = Hakas. GBRARG = Great Britain, Argyll.Anders Pålsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13444056522800105747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-53194494156040952642013-09-19T13:51:58.486+02:002013-09-19T13:51:58.486+02:00My K=4
1 KRL 89.58%
2 BASQ 8.92%
3 HKS 1.43%
4 SRD...My K=4<br />1 KRL 89.58%<br />2 BASQ 8.92%<br />3 HKS 1.43%<br />4 SRD 0.02%<br />5 FRN 0.02%<br />6 GBRCORN 0.01%<br />7 IBR 0.01%<br />8 GBRORK 0.01%<br />What is HKS population?<br />My son:<br />1 KRL 56.56%<br />2 SWD 17.27%<br />3 GBRARG 8.32%<br />4 FIN 7.32%<br />5 SAM 7.26%<br />6 BASQ 3.23%<br />7 NRW 0.03%<br />8 CEU 0.01%<br />What is GBRARG population?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-11565741871744547292013-09-19T09:47:46.410+02:002013-09-19T09:47:46.410+02:00Liz: This short tests shows that the MDLP K=5 Orac...Liz: This short tests shows that the MDLP K=5 Oracle X Pct. Calc. Option 1 appears to describe this Saami individual ancestry best. K=8 appears to be able to detect it but only as minority ancestry. It is possible that some small Saami percentages may show up for random individuals for these MDLP calculators but it is quite possibly not real if it doesn't show up consistently.Anders Pålsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13444056522800105747noreply@blogger.com