tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post847160247507009600..comments2022-04-02T11:11:39.133+02:00Comments on Fennoscandia Biographic Project: Europeans, East-Asians and AfricansAnders Pålsenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13444056522800105747noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-21837910146287163332015-05-22T14:38:07.050+02:002015-05-22T14:38:07.050+02:00what population overlaps on the continental maps w...what population overlaps on the continental maps with HUT1? it's not clear. it's something like "oer". is it "Iber"? thanksAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-20677177438518016492014-02-13T23:43:25.928+01:002014-02-13T23:43:25.928+01:00As I wrote in a earlier post earlier the Melanasia...As I wrote in a earlier post earlier the Melanasian/Papuan like admixture is of course strongest among South-East Asians but it is also seen to some weaker extent among Siberians and even Native Americans. Maybe it could explain it?<br /><br />Anonym wrote:<br /><br />"I however can't figure out why the chinese minorities Oroqen and Tujia are less related to Tianyuan than other East Asians, Europeans and even Palestinians. Melanesians are in a similar situation, but with them it's easier to understand."Anders Pålsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13444056522800105747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-2772830279684168862014-02-13T23:25:34.992+01:002014-02-13T23:25:34.992+01:00I think I can explain it. There is a "Native ...I think I can explain it. There is a "Native American" influence at the same intensity between Finns and Saami seen much less among Mordovians and Vologda Russians.<br /><br />http://fennoscandia.blogspot.no/2014/02/europeans-and-native-americans.html<br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymu wrote:<br /><br />"-Finns are more related to the Clovis individual than Mordovians and North Russians despite the latter being more "eastern" overall, maybe pointing to somewhat different origins?"Anders Pålsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13444056522800105747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-7648622448722199962014-02-13T15:46:57.516+01:002014-02-13T15:46:57.516+01:00It's possible.
Regardless of whether there i...It's possible. <br /><br />Regardless of whether there is a connection between Oroqen and Tujia or if they are less related to Tianyuan for separate reasons, these results show the limits of Admixture analyses. If we just look at those, Tujia look almost identical to Han while Oroqen look similar to other populations of Mongolia and Amur region. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-4933539500641614942014-02-13T15:04:29.876+01:002014-02-13T15:04:29.876+01:00Possibly pop. B would have a more "highlander...Possibly pop. B would have a more "highlander" origin, near Tibet, while pop. A would be more "coastal".<br /><br />[Maju again]Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-91474493905883403932014-02-13T15:03:01.824+01:002014-02-13T15:03:01.824+01:00[Maju from a diferent computer]:
What about the D...[Maju from a diferent computer]:<br /><br />What about the Daur and other populations from the Mongolia area which do behave as "normal" East Asians?<br /><br />I've been chewing on the matter a bit since my last comment and my provisional tentative solution is to hypothesize two (or three) different Asian populations some 60 Ka ago (approx.):<br /><br />Pop. A:<br />-> Tianyuan<br />-> proto-Western<br />-> proto-Eastern1 -> mainstream East Asians<br /><br />Pop. B:<br />-> proto-Eastern2 -> Tujia, Oroqen<br /><br />Not sure where to place Melanesians, possibly in a third "pop. C".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-20020900628272502982014-02-13T13:47:09.231+01:002014-02-13T13:47:09.231+01:00Oroqen are considerably more "siberian" ...Oroqen are considerably more "siberian" in admixture tests than Tujia, Han or Japanese. That's why it's interesting they behave like Tujia in relation to ancient DNA.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-56065674418570851122014-02-13T13:38:26.091+01:002014-02-13T13:38:26.091+01:00Not sure but they also show much weaker affinity t...Not sure but they also show much weaker affinity to Alnwick (a tendency again shared with Melanesians), what suggests that the reason should be the same. The Tujia are from Southern Inland China, possibly the area of origin of Y-DNA O3, judging on Neolithic data, so maybe it has some relation with that (assuming that the Oroqen are their offshoot, what I'm not sure about, really). Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-772389368202772702014-02-13T12:42:29.633+01:002014-02-13T12:42:29.633+01:00Regarding Palestinians (and to a greater extent Be...Regarding Palestinians (and to a greater extent Bedouins), I'd say African admixture can explain a lot.<br /><br />I however can't figure out why the chinese minorities Oroqen and Tujia are less related to Tianyuan than other East Asians, Europeans and even Palestinians. Melanesians are in a similar situation, but with them it's easier to understand.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-72099227084847521782014-02-13T12:21:30.230+01:002014-02-13T12:21:30.230+01:00And also it seems that the pre-Inuit peoples repre...And also it seems that the pre-Inuit peoples represented by the Saqqaq individual did leave a genetic legacy in the American Arctic, especially in Greenland, after all.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-82984084619701042032014-02-13T12:18:37.433+01:002014-02-13T12:18:37.433+01:00Very interesting, Anonym. I can't discern muc...Very interesting, Anonym. I can't discern much in map 2 re. Eastern Europeans, but the issue of to Tianyuan is fascinating, because that means that the ancestors of modern East Asians were not yet near Beijing. This is particularly strange considering that some 10--20 Ka later they must have been, judging on Native American ancestry, and considering that Tianyuan has mtDNA B4'5, which is important in East Easia and among Native Americans. <br /><br />It is also interesting that Palestinians appear much less akin to MA-1 than all other Eurasian populations, and that Na-Dené are less akin to Anzick-1 (the early Clovis individual) than Amerinds, what implies that Clovis was an Amerindian culture and that Na-Dené surely arrived later from Siberia. Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-68893763034846862302014-02-13T10:24:45.637+01:002014-02-13T10:24:45.637+01:00Here's something interesting from a recent art...Here's something interesting from a recent article concerning newly sequenced genome of a 12,600 years old Clovis culture individual.<br /><br />-In f3 most Europeans show as much affinity to 40,000 years old East Asian Tianyuan individual as modern East Asians<br /><br />-Finns are more related to the Clovis individual than Mordovians and North Russians despite the latter being more "eastern" overall, maybe pointing to somewhat different origins?<br /><br />http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v506/n7487/fig_tab/nature13025_SF5.html<br /><br />http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v506/n7487/fig_tab/nature13025_F2.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-23867518034347790432014-02-06T08:29:52.557+01:002014-02-06T08:29:52.557+01:00Thats why I wrote "Maybe its just the effect ...Thats why I wrote "Maybe its just the effect of oversampling from the European region ".<br /><br />But even its oversampled it still provide information of how the "European" variation continues outside Europe given that variation.<br /><br />Maju wrote:<br /><br />"Europeans are clearly oversampled relative to the rest,"Anders Pålsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13444056522800105747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-28237282932946264062014-02-06T00:52:16.715+01:002014-02-06T00:52:16.715+01:00"The first dimension is surprising"...
..."The first dimension is surprising"...<br /><br />Sampling strategy. You can do almost anything with the wrong sampling strategy and this is a good example: Europeans are clearly oversampled relative to the rest, so component 1 becomes European (vs non-European). <br /><br />"The second dimension dimension is also surprising"...<br /><br />Same thing: not the first time that undersampled Africans cluster with Europeans vs. East Asians, for example in Behar 2010 (or is it 2011?) at K=2.<br /><br />"The third dimension finally appear to be a true African vs non-African dimension."<br /><br />With a good sampling strategy it should be the first one. Just try reducing the three continental samples to similar numbers each... what should create an Africa vs. East Asia gradient which behaves variedly in West Eurasia (which should appear intermediate but rather tending to East Asia) depending on algorithm. <br /><br />Still they seem to serve your initial purpose of detecting East Asian and African influences in Europe. So all is good.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-41596057453012663872014-02-05T23:58:12.070+01:002014-02-05T23:58:12.070+01:00I meant just in the sense of some northeastern eur...I meant just in the sense of some northeastern european groups pulling towards Asia and Iberians towards Africa.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-49637780694167880082014-02-05T21:38:45.680+01:002014-02-05T21:38:45.680+01:00If you mean the "typcail V shape" in thi...If you mean the "typcail V shape" in this project it is not. In this analysis Sardinians/Spanish form one branch whille the Saamis, Mordovians and Vologda Russians form the other. In the European analysis the Saamis together with Finns and Scandinavians form one branch while the eastern populations like Lithuanians, Mordovians, Vologda Russians, Russians, Belorussians form the other.Anders Pålsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13444056522800105747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1820243696969815052.post-54662570682063193082014-02-05T18:29:07.974+01:002014-02-05T18:29:07.974+01:00The Dim 2/3 PCA is much like the typical admixture...The Dim 2/3 PCA is much like the typical admixture PCA's of Europe.<br /><br />Papuans pull slightly towards Africa compared to southeast asians in other PCA's of worldwide variation, so what you said about them seems possible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com